Apple Computer recently had the pleasure of talking with Irwin Winkler, co-writer, director and producer of "The Net", an upcoming release from Columbia Pictures.
One of the film industry's most honored and respected filmmakers, Winkler received the Academy Award for Best Picture in 1976 for "Rocky". Winkler's other Best Picture nominations as producer include some of the most honored films of our time such as "Raging Bull", "The Right Stuff", "Good Fellas" and "They Shoot Horses, Don't They?". In a career that spans 25 years, Winkler has seen his films receive 12 Oscars and 45 Oscar nominations in total.
The Net is a gripping techno-thriller in which a reclusive computer systems analyst becomes caught in a murderous web of intrigue when she accidentally taps into a program she was never supposed to see.
APPLE: When I spoke with Sandra Bullock, she said she loves working with you!
IRWIN WINKLER: Well, I love working with her! She's got a wonderful personality and she is fun, as you can see. We are having a good time. It is a very good, not only creative environment here, but a very lovely social environment as well. So we are able to get our creative work done in an atmosphere of warmth and affection. Which is kind of nice. And unusual in the film business...
APPLE: How so?
IRWIN WINKLER: There are no egos in the film industry, of course....!
APPLE: Sure! Why this movie for you?
IRWIN WINKLER: Well, we are living in a world of technology and information and computers, and I kind of think part of the great advantage of technology is that it gives us information and access to worlds we never thought existed. It also, to some extent, takes out the human element in contact that people have with each other. I remember when my wife got her computer, she ended up spending 5 or 6 hours sitting at the computer and I would come home and say "Hi, Honey!" and she managed to look up at me and then go right back to her computer.
In fact there was a story in the LA Times today which talked about the fact that so many people have jobs which don't require them to go to any kind of an office. They work at home, they communicate with their office by computer. And, by the way, telephone technology today is so that I can be in Europe and call in to my secretary will tell me I had 5 calls - and I say OK "plug me in" and the person that I am speaking with has no idea where I am calling from. It can be Boston, Paris or Beverly Hills. So you can deal with everybody one step beyond the normal contact. And I think there is kind of a danger in that because you lose contact with people. You never look at anybody in the eye. You chat on a computer with people you don't know who they are, what they are, what they mean. And we know about chat lines and people disguising who they are and there is no way to uncover anybody.
So I thought it would be an interesting world to examine, about somebody who, for herself, is not only part of that world of computers and by her own personality has preferred not to be out in the world. She got a job where she didn't have to go to an office and mix with people. She stayed at home. Because of her own problems, she prefers that world. And what it leads her to is a great drama in which she has to ultimately conquer her own inability to deal with people in order to save herself from what has ensued. It was a nice story I thought would be worth telling.
APPLE: Was it always written as a female character?
IRWIN WINKLER: Yes.
APPLE: Any particular reason?
IRWIN WINKLER: I am very partial to females in films. I have had a wonderful history of doing, myself, films that starred women. I have had very great success in this. I did "They Shoot Horses, Don't They?" which starred Jane Fonda. I did, what I believe is one of the first feminist films, called "Up The Sandbox" with Barbara Streisand. It is really a feminist film and back in 1972. And then I had the nice success in "The Music Box" with Jessica Lange; did "Betrayed" with Debra Winger. I have done over the years a lot films that have starred women. One of my oldest friends is Gloria Steinem and she has always had a great influence on me. And I have always felt that there is not only been a terrible lack of female roles in Hollywood but there has also been a lack of female heroes. And when you do have a female heroine, very often she has to depend on a man to save her. What I love that Rob and I created in this story, is a woman who is in danger who has to solve her problem without calling on a man and asking him "to help her out". She has to solve the problem on her own and I think that is terrific.
APPLE: What was the impetus that started the wheels turning to write THIS story?
IRWIN WINKLER: In a way it is like all stories that grow over the time. We saw a story in the LA Times about a Japanese businessman that was up for a promotion and he hired an investigator to look into his past to see everything about him that the people who were going to hire would find out about him before they did. Isn't that wild? What if somebody checked into my past and they found out that my father was involved in wrongdoing? What do you know about your parents? Very little, really. And largely what they want you to know! We really don't know that much about our past. What would happen if you started investigating your past and found out things that you never expected?
We took that further and then we asked what happens if you start losing contact with reality? What happens is you not only lose that contact with reality, but you also get cut off. You rely so much on information that you get through a computer. What happens if the computer somehow erases you?
So we came up with a plot whereby this woman is erased. In other words she has no identity. The question is what would happen if we got your social security number and through this number we could get into the DMV and destroy your Driver's License, we could get into your bank records and destroy your mortgage, we could then get into your health records and change them in any way we want? It is very easy to do. What happens to that person? All of a sudden she has no identity. So, what happens now, is that the person who prefers having no identity in the beginning, who only wanted to live through the computer so she didn't have to deal with people, now finds out she really has no identity and has to find one.
APPLE: Where is the balance? Computers can be very good things...
IRWIN WINKLER: Oh, they are great. But you can't lose human contact to pursue your knowledge.
APPLE: So this film for you is not about technology bashing....
IRWIN WINKLER: As a matter of fact, it shows all the great things that computers can do. It also shows what human beings can do with the technology if they misuse it.
APPLE: Have you been on-line yourself?
IRWIN WINKLER: No, but I have watched [people on-line].
APPLE: Has the technology aspect of this film created the greatest challenge?
IRWIN WINKLER: No, not really. Getting 150 extras in the right place at the right time is the most challenging....! (Says Winkler pointing to the Carousel set with extras of all ages climbing over horses to get into place for the next shot).
APPLE: So the same challenges are carried over from picture to picture...
IRWIN WINKLER: Well, we have some great technology guys on this picture. They are terrific and do a really great job. You know, we are big shots. We say let's program an airline reservation system and they go out and do it!
APPLE: What do you hope that people seeing this movie will come away thinking about?
IRWIN WINKLER: I'd like them to have a good time in a darkened theater somewhere. That is what I really hope happens. I don't want to be pretentious and give a whole message. Hopefully, this film is really a lot of fun about a very interesting subject. That is all I really want. To tell a really good story.
APPLE: Is a "good time" the goal of all your movies or are their messages to be delivered?
IRWIN WINKLER: In directing "Guilty By Suspicion", I wanted to tell a specific moral tale about what was happening to America during the period of blacklisting. There is a morality in "The Net" too, about a person's ability to deal with people and what being closed off can mean. But it is not a political statement, or a social statement. Most of the films I do, I try to tell a nice story. I don't want to simplify it, but I also don't want to be pretentious and think that this movie is going to make a statement that is going to change the world. If you tell a story that is contemporary and is on the forefront of people's minds, then you are making a statement of some kind without "making a statement", if you know what I mean.
What is interesting to me is the recent Time Magazine where there is a whole special issue about Cyberspace. Last month, Newsweek had a full issue on the subject. About 6 weeks before that, US News and World Report had a full issue, yet no film has been made that deals with the subject. Well, we are making one that deals with the subject. We are trying to do it as authentically as we can. We are also finding that things are changing very rapidly... and I was very amused to read about this guy Mitnick being caught and how someone bought the rights to it. We planned that 2 years ago! We are doing it, and almost finished. It is kind of nice that art is on the forefront of what is happening in our social climate.
APPLE: You are a writer, a director and a producer. Which do you prefer?
IRWIN WINKLER: Directing. I like it a lot. It is what I enjoy most. I still do some producing. I like to actually get it done my way and see it done my way. I enjoy the interaction I have with the actors. I try to be patient with the technology that WE have to deal with. Although the principal technology that we have was developed 50 years ago. You know we still use 35mm film, we are not into digital tape or anything... The closest we got to a new form of technology is the Steadicam. Which I was lucky enough to use when I did "Rocky" in Philadelphia when we were the first people to use it. Not a great many changes have happened in film technology since the Steadicam.
APPLE: I understand you are using the digital Avid system in editing.
IRWIN WINKLER: Yeah, it is great. I always used to like the feel of film. But this is wonderful. We can make changes, we can mix the film, put in opticals on the fly, lay in soundtracks, we can make cuts... we simplify the process. We are cutting as we go along. This scene that we are shooting tonight, I can see a cut by Tuesday. The only reason I can't see it Monday, is that it takes a certain amount of time to download it into digital form.
APPLE: When can we look forward to the film's release?
IRWIN WINKLER: We are playing with late Summer/early Fall.
APPLE: Thank you for your time tonight. We hope to get you on-line live with us in the future.
IRWIN WINKLER: I would love to do that. Thank you.
- end interview
Stay tuned to eWorld for continued exclusive on-line coverage of The Net, including photos and clips from the filming and interviews with the cast.