rec.sport.disc FAQ (1/2)

* Indicates new or vastly revised questions

Ultimate is a fabulous, high-energy sport that can be enjoyed by people of all ages and disc-skills who don't mind a little running and a lot of fun. The description below applies to the outdoor version of the game. The indoor version, being on a smaller field, is somewhat modified (a slightly smaller field and fewer players) but mostly similar.

Picture, if you will, a playing field (usually grass, but desperate teams will play on almost any surface) as follows:

     <- 25 yds -> <--------------- 70 yds --------------> <- 25 yds ->
   ^ +-----------+---------------------------------------+-----------+
   | |           |                                       |           |
   | |           |                                       |           |

   | |           |                                       |           |
   | |   End     |                                       |   End     |
  40 |           |                                       |           |
  yds|   Zone    |                                       |   Zone    |
   | |           |                                       |           |
   | |           |                                       |           |
   | |           |                                       |           |

   | |           |                                       |           |
   v +-----------+---------------------------------------+-----------+

On this playing field are two teams of seven players each. The object of the game is for a team to pass the disc from player to player, all the way up the field, and catch the disc in their end- zone, which scores a point. Players cannot run with the disc, but must plant a pivot foot (as in basketball) and throw the disc to a teammate. When holding the disc, a player gets ten seconds to throw it to a teammate (five or seven seconds indoors), which is counted off by the defender guarding the offensive player (known as "marking" the thrower.) If the disc isn't thrown in time, it's called a "stall" and the defense takes over.

If the offensive team drops the disc, catches it out of bounds, or failes to complete a pass because a defender somehow blocks the pass, the other team picks up the disc where it lands and works to score in the other direction. Defenders gnerally play either a man-to-man or zone defense in their attempt to block a throw.

The game is non-contact - it's a foul to hit the other player, or to hit the disc while it's being held. (Blocking the disc right after it's thrown, known as a "point-block", is a very hot play!) Nor can a defender be "picked" off the player being guarded. Any play carried out with the main intent to prevent another player from having a fair chance at catching the disc or making a defense is considered a foul; in other words, you have to "play the disc, not the person!"

Probably the most important part of Ultimate is known as "The Spirit of the Game". This catch-phrase is used to describe the respect that every player in the game has for his fellow players. No referees are used in the game. Instead, each player does his best to make an honest call if necessary, and trust the calls of his fellow players, with the implicit assumption that nobody in Ultimate would try to cheat.

This principle is what makes Ultimate special to so many people, and all Ultimate players try to keep the Spirit alive by maintaining this high level of trust, no matter how competitive the game gets. If people cannot resolve their differences, people usually say "back to the thrower", which allows play to continue on without forcing the issue one way or another.

The best way to see how Ultimate is played is to go watch a local tournament. Ultimate players share a great comraderie, and LOVE to introduce new players to the sport. So come on out and watch!

Disc golf is a great sport for everybody that relies on one's ability to throw a disc with power and accuracy. People of any age, ability, and gender can excel and enjoy disc golf immensely.

The object of the game is to traverse a course from beginning to end in the fewest total number of throws of a golf disc. Similar to the traditional golf game, a course is composed of a number of holes, in which each player begins by throwing from the tee, and completes the hole by landing in or striking the target.

The total score for a course is determined by totaling the number of throws made on each hole. The winner is the player who completes the course in the fewest number of throws...or whoever has the most fun!

Disc golf courses exist in many different terrains. Often they are laid out among wooden areas, with water hazards, large elevation changes, and difficult throws. Other courses are mostly flat, with few natural obstacles. The obstacles should be considered part of the course, and not tampered with (even when a tree eats your disc!)

The average course is 18 holes, but 9 hole and 27 hole courses exist as well. The average hole is around 425 ft (130m), but some are as short as 150 ft (45m) or as long as 1000 ft (300m). Courses usually have a listed par, for pro or amateur players. Of course, people practice disc golf all the time by just aiming for an object a hundred yards away, which is the kind of disc golf one will often see being played on university campuses or urban parks.

Terms:

Tee -

this the area where the player starts each hole. Some courses have multiple tees for each hole. The material on the tee surface varies from concrete, asphalt, dirt, crushed stone, or wood chips. In general, any flat non-slippery surface is good.

Target -

The target is where the disc must land in in order to complete the hole. The target is usually a "pole hole" which is specially made to catch the golf disc. Courses that do not use pole holes are usually known as object courses. A typical "object target" is a tree trunk, 4x4 or pipe.

Golf disc -

a "golf disc" is a flying disc made especially for the sport of disc golf, although some players use Wham-O type frisbees. Golf discs vary in weight and size. They are usually harder and denser than Wham-O type frisbees. Special models exist for driving, putting and "up shots" (not as far as a drive, but more than a putt) much like different golf clubs exist in ball golf. However, players are not required to use a "driver" as a driver or a "putter" as a putter. Some players throw a putter as their first shot from the tee. A golf disc generally costs anywhere from US $5-7, depending on how many are bought.

A professional PDGA tour exists, currently has about 5000-7000 active members, some of whom play on a professional level for money, and some play on a amateur level for non cash prizes. The top money winner last year won over US $16,000.

A mailing list has been set up to send digests to interested people who can't access rec.sport.disc directly. Articles are batched in groups of 15 or so and sent to every member of the mailing list. Similarly, any message mailed to the list is posted directly to rec.sport.disc. This can be used by people who can read news but are unable to post.

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ultimate-request@doe.carleton.ca

indicating your request. Put something like "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" in the subject, which makes it easier on the host of the newsgroup. Once you're subscribed, batches will start being mailed to your return address. To post something to the group, simply send the posting to:

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If you have problems, send mail to

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[...] I can identify a brand name that produced some shoes similar to what you described. I bought some out of curiosity last fall and loved them except for one caveat. If the ground is the least bit wet they muck up very quickly and feel like lead boots. I'd recommend carrying different shoes (like Sharks or soccer shoes) in the case that the ground is wet. The shoe I got is a Converse (Hi-top model).

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My first cleats were Patrick soccer cleats. 'nuff said. :-(.

Before my ankles finished falling off, I bought Nike (Land) Sharks, vintage 1990. They were a problem for me because (i) the toe is too pointed, making a hard cut a somewhat Procrustean experience (but most people don't have this problem); and (ii) the lugs were too soft, and in a year (playing 3-5 hrs/wk.) I had snapped off four or five of the big ones.

When the problem became too serious to ignore (no lugs on medial right heel), I threw 'em out and bought Pony Blasters. I liked these better than the Sharks, as they fit my feet well and the lugs were stronger (and well-placed); however, they didn't have much padding.

Eventually the Ponies wore out and I bought (on clearance) a pair of Converse Starforce hightops. The grip is good (but the fields I play on are now so hard that it hasn't been tested well); however, after about 10 hours of use the leather has split on the medial left heel, which bodes ill for their longevity.

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[...] I will tell you what type of shoes I wear. I bought a pair of Adidas Stratos Drive at the beginning of this year and they are great. They have long studs, which are recommended for soft ground, but I think that is because they are soccer cleats and soccer players must kick that ball. I haven't had any trouble with traction and actually find that I get better traction than with any other cleat I have worn. The cleats have only six studs, two in back and four in front. All the cleats I have worn in the past have had something like 10 or 12. The six studs really don't pick up any mud, and therefore don't bog down in mud. They are also hard plastic, so they "dig in" in hard ground. They are by far the best cleat I have ever worn. I ran into a problem with my other cleats of wearing out after only one year or so, but these are showing absolutely no sign of wear. They also have removable studs, so that you can put in shorter ones if you like or replace the ones in there. They cost around $65, but I think they are an excellent deal.

I haven't tried a football cleat but I can't imagine anything working better than the Stratos Drive. Oh yeah, I almost forgot one small point in all my rambling. The Stratos Drive give me a significant jump. Because there are only 4 studs in front, I get excellent grip on quick accelerations. I was immediately able to get a great jump on even our fastest players after getting these cleats. But you probably should have strong ankles if you get these because they are a little hard to get used to.

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[Ed note: I stopped in at the Nike store in downtown Portland, Oregon (Nike is based in the Portland area). A sales clerk told me that the Nike Land Shark was no longer made. It is possible that between between me and the clerk some information was garbled, but this agrees with what I heard in local shoe stores. I have been trying several times a day to call Nike's Consumer Information Center (1-800-344-NIKE) to check out this report and track down some Nike Land Sharks, but the phone is always busy. They must be swamped with customers clamoring for the old Land Sharks :-)]

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The most common shoes on the Portland team are probably Nike Air Slams. They are actually softball shoes but they have better traction than anything else that we have tried. The cleats are hard plastic -- they have a lot of "bite" to them but they clog easily in mud. Unfortunately softball is not exactly a high intensity sport so Slams don't have much foot, arch or ankle support. I know two people who have gone back to Sharks because they got tired of having their feet hurt all the time. Blake Garnard (who plays for Rhino Slam) wears Sharks most of the time and only puts his Slams on for semis and finals! I've never had any pair of cleats last me more than about a year, but the Slams have been pretty tough.

Compared to Sharks, the Slams have better traction and seem to be tougher, but the Sharks give better support and work a little better in the mud. If you are going to use either Sharks or Slams and you play in the mud then it's a good idea to get some standard soccer type cleats for mud and use the other pair in dryer conditions.

I know a number of people at Nike including several who play Ultimate. I was talking to one of their R&D people (who plays Ultimate) last week. He says that Nike considers Ultimate to be a "closet sport" and as such they don't do any R&D for it. Nike doesn't make any shoes that are ideal for Ultimate but Sharks are probably the best overall match to our sport out of their line.

I've only had one pair of cleats that weren't made by Nike. They were made by Converse but I can't find a model name or number on them. I've only worn them twice. The back of the heel has a hard plastic piece inside it and it isn't the same shape as the back of my heel. [...]

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[A reply to the above:] The type of earth you play on can make a difference as well. I've never played on the west coast, but in Florida and North Carolina the dirt is very sandy and has a lot more give to it than the topsoil of the Midwest. It can make a difference in the ideal shoe (I use Air Sharks, BTW, and am quite happy with them - bought them about six months ago and they're holding up fine)

======================
I just got a new pair of Nike Shark high tops this week. (btw I have not found *any* source of high top shoes in Manitoba - had to get these brought in from New York). They are indeed too hard and slip on the hard ground here. My favorite Ultimate shoe for dry ground is a Spot Bilt turf shoe (no high top available unfortunately), I don't know the exact model name. this shoe is great for hard ground or good grass, but the small cleats hold too much mud when its really wet.

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[A reply to the above:] Amen! These were/are my favorite ultimate shoes I ever had. But I don't think they exist anymore -- no shoe salesperson here in SillyPutty Valley could locate them. If anyone has any source for these, I'd *love* to know where to get some.

Last year I had a pair of Umbro cleats (molded); I loved them, but as one of the earlier posts mentioned, they changed them this year, and they seem a little narrower, especially at the toe. Still, they're pretty comfortable. I played with a pair of Patrick molded cleats this spring, and found them quite good, but I'll switch to the Umbros for summer, as the cleats are shorter, and we play on a lot of dry, hard fields.

I've worn Adidas soccer shoes for many years and have been happy with them. However, a year ago I had to give up the inexpensive kind that are mainly nylon with only a little bit of leather at crucial wear points and switch to the all leather kind that cost four times as much. The reason was that as I played harder, the force of my foot shifting in the shoe caused too much force on the nylon, and that stress had to be absorbed by the outside "knuckle" of my big toes. This led to painful bunions that were immediately alleviated by the leather shoes that absorb more stress and distribute it more evenly over the foot.

I've always worn low-top shoes, but it took about 3 years of playing before my ankles got strong enough to get through a game without swelling up afterwards.

Hilarie Orman, ho@cs.arizona.edu

[ NOTE: The information contained herein is ONLY a guide, and not to be taken as authoritative. No one should ever accept any medical advice from the network except at their own risk. Before dealing with any non-trivial injury, playing while in pain or injured, or starting regular treatment for an injury, a qualified doctor, preferably one specializing in sports medicine, should be consulted. ]

Overstable -

a disc that turns left when thrown flat with a right handed backhand throw

Stable -

a disc that goes straight when thrown flat with a right handed backhand throw.

Instable -

a disc that turns right when thrown flat with a right (understable) handed backhand throw.

Hyzer -

The disc is tilted towards the ground to make the disc turn left when thrown with a right handed backhand throw.

Anhyzer -

The disc is tilted to produce a curve from left to right when thrown with a right handed backhand throw.